Saturday, July 12, 2008
Do you habla ingles?
By VictorM:For quite a while now, right-wingers have been preoccupied with English-only, particularly as it applies to immigrants. It has been one of the silliest arguments I've observed. This right-winger says this, in a mostly otherwise incoherent post about the topic:
If I emigrated to a country where English was not the language, I would not demand that the government produce signs and panphlets (sic) in English; I’d learn the language. My children would learn it as well if I expected them to succeed in their new land.Who can argue with that? Of course you would... BY CHOICE! But that's not what you bozos have been pushing for, is it?
If a country, let's say Iraq, had the need for workers from America to perform jobs Iraqis can't or won't do, would it not be wise for them to have signs, pamphlets, and other literature in English to help facilitate the American workers function in Iraqi society? After all, learning a foreign language is not something that happens overnight. How would you function in that culture until you fully understood their language and customs? Further, the author of the above quote assumes everyone has the same level of intelligence and education, which clearly is not the case for many who come to our shores; many immigrants can barely read or write in their own language. And even further, the author doesn't factor in the realities immigrants must deal with, such as debt for traveling to the USA, starving families back home, harsh working conditions, exploitive bosses, sub-minimum wage earnings, no driving licenses, etc. To expect such people to have the time or the inclination to go to night school to learn English is nuts.
What's missed in all this argument is that the vast majority of immigrants DO learn English! Wingers like to focus on a minority that does not, and fail to realize that those who ask for pamphlets in Spanish (or whatever other language) are doing so because they understand that the first few months, or even years, in a foreign land is difficult. Anything that makes immigrants adapt and understand our laws and rules benefit everyone.
It is wise for government and businesses to publish materials in a foreign language if a significant number of immigrants who speak that language live in the area. Learning English, like getting a college degree or joining the army, is something that people should do of their won free will.
My question to the quoted poster is this: are your children learning Spanish? Because if you know what's best for them, they should be!
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No, no, no. When I pick up a phone, it doesn't ask me to dial a choice for Chinese, or Vietnamese, or Swedish, or Polish, or Tagalog - all languages of immigrants who came here with the same problems and challenges; the same difficulty learning their host country's language.
It is only, and uniquely, those who speak spanish that are claiming they should be exempt from this pjrocess, and that the rest of us should accommodate them.
To me the apologists for them sound a bit racist; "they're not smart enough" to learn English, or "it's too hard for them".
Unless you truly believe that they are the only immigrant group to be too stupid to learn our language, (and I don't) then that argument doesn't fly.
I'm all for spending some tax dollars for adult english education - for everyone, not just spanish speakers - but remain opposed to spending millions to create a duplicate, bi-lingual system like Canada's.
Why should the Spanish speakers, alone in the history of this country, be granted this special dispensation? I have yet to hear that question answered. My ancestors didn't get it and never even asked for it. They wanted to live here and become part of the culture. Why does this one group refuse, and why should we make it easy for them to refuse?
I say, "Here's the free classes. Now, learn the damn language."
It is only, and uniquely, those who speak spanish that are claiming they should be exempt from this pjrocess, and that the rest of us should accommodate them.
To me the apologists for them sound a bit racist; "they're not smart enough" to learn English, or "it's too hard for them".
Unless you truly believe that they are the only immigrant group to be too stupid to learn our language, (and I don't) then that argument doesn't fly.
I'm all for spending some tax dollars for adult english education - for everyone, not just spanish speakers - but remain opposed to spending millions to create a duplicate, bi-lingual system like Canada's.
Why should the Spanish speakers, alone in the history of this country, be granted this special dispensation? I have yet to hear that question answered. My ancestors didn't get it and never even asked for it. They wanted to live here and become part of the culture. Why does this one group refuse, and why should we make it easy for them to refuse?
I say, "Here's the free classes. Now, learn the damn language."
First of all, this one group does not refuse anything; many immigrants today, from all nations, come here and learn the language, some don't. Just as back in the days of your ancestors and mine. The differences are: 1) your ancestors didn't have a political party fabricating divisions because that's the only way they can win elections; and 2) your ancestors faced ruthless tyrants back home and didn't yet know the concepts of human rights and civil rights, and so they came, they kept their mouths shut even when they were humiliated with derogatory name calling, stifling working conditions, or sent to concentration camps just because of their country of origin (the concept of "rocking the boat simply wasn't tolerated because being deported, for many, meant death or starvation).
But America has been very successfully at spreading freedom and teaching people not to take crap (Iraq not withstanding) and so today's immigrants, organize and defend their rights, as they should. And they try to protect, or make life easier, for those that come after them.
You may not know what it's like to be a newcomer to this country and not understand tax systems, legal systems, health care, etc. but I do and so did my parents. Having information in a language that most immigrants know helps make life a little easier until such time as they can learn. What is wrong with that?
You are wrong about Spanish speakers being the only ones asking that newcomers be welcome into this country with ways to facilitate their introduction into American life. For example, the Polish in Chicago do and the Chinese in NYC do. But it does follow that the most powerful and numerous a group is, the more clout they're going to have.
And no one with any level of responsibility that I'm aware of is asking for dual language system like in Canada; that's simply a false assertion and a misrepresentation of what is going on. Frankly, it's just a right-wing talking point.
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But America has been very successfully at spreading freedom and teaching people not to take crap (Iraq not withstanding) and so today's immigrants, organize and defend their rights, as they should. And they try to protect, or make life easier, for those that come after them.
You may not know what it's like to be a newcomer to this country and not understand tax systems, legal systems, health care, etc. but I do and so did my parents. Having information in a language that most immigrants know helps make life a little easier until such time as they can learn. What is wrong with that?
You are wrong about Spanish speakers being the only ones asking that newcomers be welcome into this country with ways to facilitate their introduction into American life. For example, the Polish in Chicago do and the Chinese in NYC do. But it does follow that the most powerful and numerous a group is, the more clout they're going to have.
And no one with any level of responsibility that I'm aware of is asking for dual language system like in Canada; that's simply a false assertion and a misrepresentation of what is going on. Frankly, it's just a right-wing talking point.
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